Legislature(2001 - 2002)

01/16/2002 01:38 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 16, 2002                                                                                        
                           1:38 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Jeannette James                                                                                                  
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative Albert Kookesh                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Bonnie Mehner - Anchorage                                                                                                  
     Arthur S. Robinson - Soldotna                                                                                              
     H. Connor Thomas - Nome                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BONNIE MEHNER, Appointee                                                                                                        
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                                                          
2923 McCollie Drive                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99517                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as appointee to the Select                                                                       
Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ARTHUR S. ROBINSON, Appointee                                                                                                   
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                                                          
35401 Kenai Spur Highway                                                                                                        
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  as  appointee  to  the  Select                                                               
Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
H. CONNOR THOMAS, Appointee                                                                                                     
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                                                          
PO Box 61                                                                                                                       
Nome, Alaska  99762                                                                                                             
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  as  appointee  to  the  Select                                                               
Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-1, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  SCOTT  OGAN,  acting  as  chair,  called  the  House                                                               
Judiciary  Standing  Committee  meeting  to order  at  1:38  p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Ogan, Coghill,  James, Meyer,  and Kookesh  were                                                               
present at the  call to order.   Representative Berkowitz arrived                                                               
as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0047                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  OGAN announced  that  the  committee would  consider                                                               
three appointees  to the Select Committee  on Legislative Ethics:                                                               
Bonnie Mehner, Arthur S. Robinson, and H. Connor Thomas.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0137                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BONNIE  MEHNER,   Appointee,  Select  Committee   on  Legislative                                                               
Ethics,  testified  via  teleconference.    In  response  to  the                                                               
question of  why she wished to  serve on the Select  Committee on                                                               
Legislative  Ethics, she  said she  viewed it  as another  way of                                                               
serving her community  and anticipated that it would  be a change                                                               
from  what she  usually does  in her  regular profession  of real                                                               
estate.   She  noted that  she is  active in  the community,  and                                                               
while  she had  not  anticipated  the extent  of  the "hoops  and                                                               
whistles" she would  have to go through, she is  willing to serve                                                               
on the committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  OGAN  noted  that although  ethics  are  not  always                                                               
spelled out in the statutes, they  are the "heart of the intent."                                                               
He surmised  that Ms. Mehner  might be  asked to make  some tough                                                               
judgment calls from  time to time, adding that he  assumes she is                                                               
aware of and comfortable with the inherent responsibility.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEHNER concurred.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH  noted that  he has reviewed  Ms. Mehner's                                                               
resume,   and  that   he  is   supportive  of   her  appointment,                                                               
particularly in light of the  fact that she graduated from Alaska                                                               
Methodist University, from which he, too, graduated.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES,  after  noting that  Ms.  Mehner's  resume                                                               
indicated  she attended  16 different  schools while  growing up,                                                               
asked how this experience influenced her.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEHNER  said it  was a  positive experience,  helping broaden                                                               
her as a  person by exposing her to lots  of different situations                                                               
and to  people in  different walks  of life.   She  observed that                                                               
when a  person moves around a  lot as a child,  he/she could grow                                                               
up either being open to new ideas or being shy.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  recalled that  when he  was serving  on the                                                               
Anchorage  Assembly,  Ms.  Mehner  served as  the  chair  of  the                                                               
Anchorage Arts  Advisory Commission.   He  added that  Ms. Mehner                                                               
represented  that group  very well,  and he  expressed confidence                                                               
that she would serve well  on the Select Committee on Legislative                                                               
Ethics.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  OGAN  reminded  members  that  signing  the  reports                                                               
regarding  appointments  to  boards  and commissions  in  no  way                                                               
reflects  individual  members'  approval or  disapproval  of  the                                                               
appointees, and that the nominations  are merely forwarded to the                                                               
full legislature for confirmation or rejection.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0628                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JAMES moved  to report  the nomination  of Bonnie                                                               
Mehner  to the  Select  Committee on  Legislative  Ethics out  of                                                               
committee.    There  being no  objection,  the  confirmation  was                                                               
advanced.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0673                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ARTHUR S.  ROBINSON, Appointee,  Select Committee  on Legislative                                                               
Ethics,  testified  via  teleconference.    In  response  to  the                                                               
question of  why he wished  to serve  on the Select  Committee on                                                               
Legislative  Ethics,   he  said  he  envisions   serving  on  the                                                               
committee  as  a  good  way  to  volunteer  meaningful  community                                                               
service  on  a part-time  basis.    He  offered that  the  Select                                                               
Committee  on   Legislative  Ethics  carries  out   an  important                                                               
government  function  and  that  he  wanted  to  assist  in  this                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted  that Mr. Robinson is  an attorney and                                                               
surmised that  as such, is  probably used to  cut-and-dried sorts                                                               
of situations.  She said that  she has always had the belief that                                                               
"we all really  know what ethical behavior is, but  we do need to                                                               
have somebody look  over us."  She asked Mr.  Robinson whether he                                                               
thinks it true that in  determining what's ethical and what isn't                                                               
for those in  public service, it's not necessarily  what is right                                                               
or wrong, but rather what has the looks of being right or wrong.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBINSON, in  response, said that in many  instances (some of                                                               
which are addressed in the  [Standards of Conduct] statutes), the                                                               
appearance of  being ethical  is as  important as  being ethical.                                                               
He added that certainly there  might be times when questions will                                                               
arise regarding  whether doing something  or not  doing something                                                               
will fall  into the  category of unethical  conduct, or  have the                                                               
appearance of doing so under some circumstances.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES,  remarking that "it's kind  of subjective,"                                                               
asked Mr. Robinson what he would use to base his decisions on.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBINSON  said that according  to his understanding,  work on                                                               
the Select  Committee on Legislative Ethics  involves two things:                                                               
one, making  decisions based on  complaints that a  legislator or                                                               
legislative   employee  has   done  something   unethical  (which                                                               
requires  investigating the  facts  and  determining whether  the                                                               
[Standards  of Conduct]  statutes  have been  violated; and  two,                                                               
responding  to   inquiries  from  legislators   [and  legislative                                                               
employees]  as to  whether specific  conduct would  be unethical.                                                               
For the latter, the committee  would review the question in light                                                               
of  the  statutes and  past  advisory  opinions to  formulate  an                                                               
advisory  opinion specific  to the  current question.   Thus,  he                                                               
surmised, his  personal opinion  would not have  much to  do with                                                               
any decisions  the Select Committee  on Legislative  Ethics makes                                                               
as  a   whole  regarding  complaints   since  the   committee  is                                                               
constrained to matching the facts  of any complaint with existing                                                               
statute.   He  also  surmised  that the  same  would  be true  of                                                               
advisory   opinions  even   though  these   do  not   entail  any                                                               
investigation; the  committee would still be  relying on statutes                                                               
and precedents to form advisory opinions.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0965                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES posited that it  is in the advisory opinions                                                               
where  subjectivity could  play  a part;  she  suggested that  in                                                               
looking  to  give  advisory opinions,  the  Select  Committee  on                                                               
Legislative Ethics  might need to  be a little bit  stricter with                                                               
regard to what is considered ethical behavior.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ  remarked that  there is  no prohibition                                                               
in  the [Legislature's]  ethical  standards  against engaging  in                                                               
conduct  that has  the appearance  of  impropriety; because  it's                                                               
only in  the preamble, he added,  it does not have  any statutory                                                               
strength.   He suggested that  "perhaps that's one of  the issues                                                               
we can cure  later on down the road" by  attaching more weight to                                                               
avoiding the appearance of impropriety.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said  it is her personal belief  that in her                                                               
own personal  behavior, she needs  to avoid [conduct]  that might                                                               
have even the appearance of being unethical.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  OGAN  pointed  out  that anyone  who  wants  to  get                                                               
reelected   doesn't   want   to   create   the   appearance   [of                                                               
impropriety];   "ultimately  the   voters   are   who  hold   you                                                               
accountable,"  he  added.   He  suggested  that  during  election                                                               
season,  a lot  of the  charges of  ethics violations  are simply                                                               
based on  partisan politics instigated  by people who  would like                                                               
to see a  person out of office.   He asked, "How  do you separate                                                               
the wheat from the chaff?"                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBINSON explained  that if it is a  complaint situation, the                                                               
main  responsibility  would be  to  investigate  it to  determine                                                               
whether  the allegation  has any  substance to  it based  on real                                                               
facts.   If the  complaint cannot be  substantiated, it  does not                                                               
need  to be  acted on.   He  acknowledged that  in the  political                                                               
world, it can  be hard to determine, sometimes,  what's the "real                                                               
stuff"  and what's  not  because of  political  maneuvering.   He                                                               
reiterated  that  as   a  member  of  the   Select  Committee  on                                                               
Legislative Ethics, he  would be constrained to  finding out what                                                               
is really  going in terms  of facts as  a opposed to  merely loud                                                               
allegations.  Without  facts, the committee would not  be able to                                                               
support any  recommendation against  a legislator  or legislative                                                               
employee.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR OGAN  noted  that  one of  the  aspects  of having  a                                                               
citizen  legislature is  that members  occasionally change  jobs,                                                               
and this can potentially raise conflict-of-interest questions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1273                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BERKOWITZ  moved  to  report  the  nomination  of                                                               
Arthur S. Robinson to the  Select Committee on Legislative Ethics                                                               
out of  committee.   There being  no objection,  the confirmation                                                               
was advanced.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1305                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
H.  CONNOR THOMAS,  Appointee,  Select  Committee on  Legislative                                                               
Ethics,  testified  via  teleconference.    In  response  to  the                                                               
question of why he wished to  serve again on the Select Committee                                                               
on Legislative  Ethics, he  said that he  enjoyed his  first term                                                               
and  that he  is now  familiar with  how the  process works.   He                                                               
added that serving on the  committee is an opportunity to provide                                                               
public  service without  an overwhelming  time commitment.   When                                                               
asked which of his prior-term  experiences stand out the most, he                                                               
referred  to potential  conflict of  interest issues,  those that                                                               
have arisen in connection both  with lobbyists and others who are                                                               
not lobbyists.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  OGAN  asked  whether Mr.  Thomas  had  any  specific                                                               
recommendation  for legislators  regarding proper  procedures for                                                               
clearing things with the Select  Committee on Legislative Ethics.                                                               
He  related that  he has  asked  for advisory  opinions over  the                                                               
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. THOMAS said  that the real heart of what  the committee does,                                                               
according  to his  experience, is  issue advisory  opinions.   He                                                               
continued:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     "I think  that's the opportunity  that is  provided for                                                                    
     feedback on  things that may  ... create  an appearance                                                                    
     of impropriety;  it may not  be an actual  violation of                                                                    
     the  ethics code,  but a  person should  be told  that.                                                                    
     And the  fact that  they call and  ask for  an advisory                                                                    
     opinion -- I totally agree  that that is really ... the                                                                    
     meat of  what the committee  does and should  be doing,                                                                    
     because anytime you can avoid  a complaint, you've done                                                                    
     a service.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR OGAN  recounted  that he  has  actually observed  the                                                               
press criticizing legislators for  asking for an advisory opinion                                                               
on  something,  on  the  grounds   that  it  implies  that  if  a                                                               
legislator  asks   for  an  advisory  opinion   before  doing  an                                                               
activity, he/she must have a guilty conscience.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. THOMAS  said he  disagrees with that  assumption.   He added,                                                               
"It seems to me like the prudent thing to do."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1510                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER moved to report  the nomination of H. Connor                                                               
Thomas  to the  Select  Committee on  Legislative  Ethics out  of                                                               
committee.    There  being no  objection,  the  confirmation  was                                                               
advanced.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1528                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:00 p.m.                                                                 

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